Discussion:
Making Plastic Keys
(too old to reply)
Matthew
2003-09-15 00:51:54 UTC
Permalink
In case you don't like using the Clam Kit to duplicate keys, some
OOMOO 30 silicon rubber and Smooth-Cast 300 plastic resin will allow
you to make plastic keys. The only additional supplies you'll need is
some plastic cups, spoons, a toothpick and a key. Both products are
extremely easy to work with and are less expensive. Plus when you
make a silicon mold of a key you may cast as many plastic keys as you
want from the same mold without degradation or distortion. Using
silicon rubber and plastic resin allows a person to mold and cast any
high-security key, unlike the Clam Kit. The plastic keys are durable
and strong enough to move the tumblers and turn the plug. If you want
to make a set of plastic bump keys (i.e. hammerpicks, 999 keys,
knockers) or if you want to make some blank plastic keys for
impressioning, I recommend using a harder plastic resin, such as Task
10. Pin marks left on the plastic blank show up like a neon sign and
the plastic is easy to file and cut.
Glen Cooper
2003-09-15 02:28:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew
In case you don't like using the Clam Kit to duplicate keys, some
OOMOO 30 silicon rubber and Smooth-Cast 300 plastic resin will allow
you to make plastic keys. The only additional supplies you'll need is
some plastic cups, spoons, a toothpick and a key. Both products are
extremely easy to work with and are less expensive. Plus when you
make a silicon mold of a key you may cast as many plastic keys as you
want from the same mold without degradation or distortion. Using
silicon rubber and plastic resin allows a person to mold and cast any
high-security key, unlike the Clam Kit. The plastic keys are durable
and strong enough to move the tumblers and turn the plug. If you want
to make a set of plastic bump keys (i.e. hammerpicks, 999 keys,
knockers) or if you want to make some blank plastic keys for
impressioning, I recommend using a harder plastic resin, such as Task
10. Pin marks left on the plastic blank show up like a neon sign and
the plastic is easy to file and cut.
You cant use plastic for impressioning and I think your overall coment is
going overbourd.

Hi Fredie
Matthew
2003-09-15 11:01:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Glen Cooper
You cant use plastic for impressioning and I think your overall coment is
going overbourd.
I recommend you do your own test. The supplies probably cost no more
then $30. After some tests, then you could make generalizations about
the technique. Using plastics for impressioning is not a new idea.
There's an article in the Reed Security Reporter by a prison locksmith
who found a plastic toothbrush that had been formed into a working key
by impressioning. You can find references to plastics being used in
forensic journals and books.
"Key"
2003-09-15 22:37:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew
Post by Glen Cooper
You cant use plastic for impressioning and I think your
overall coment is
Post by Matthew
Post by Glen Cooper
going overbourd.
I recommend you do your own test. The supplies probably
cost no more
Post by Matthew
then $30. After some tests, then you could make
generalizations about
Post by Matthew
the technique. Using plastics for impressioning is not a
new idea.
Post by Matthew
There's an article in the Reed Security Reporter by a
prison locksmith
Post by Matthew
who found a plastic toothbrush that had been formed into a
working key
Post by Matthew
by impressioning. You can find references to plastics
being used in
Post by Matthew
forensic journals and books.
"Matthew",
Glen is correct, its just not feasible.
Why would anyone even want to use plastic ?
Regular brass key blanks are fine for the procedure and will
last much longer.

my2¢
--
"Key"
Matthew
2003-09-16 01:40:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by "Key"
"Matthew",
Glen is correct, its just not feasible.
Why would anyone even want to use plastic ?
Regular brass key blanks are fine for the procedure and will
last much longer.
I'm not saying plastic is better or will last longer than brass. What
I'm saying is there is a cheaper, easier, and more reliable substitute
for the Clam Kit - a tool sold by many reputable locksmith
distributors. I'm also saying that plastic keys may be used for
impressioning. It's simply a fact. I have several keys that I have
made.

Why would anyone want to use plastic - who knows? Why do people spend
money on electric lock picks? Because it's another tool that may work
for them. Just because a technique or tool comes along that you have
never heard of, does not make the technique false or the tool faulty.
Bushy
2003-09-16 02:19:00 UTC
Permalink
I'm glad you told us.

I have a few bits from modelling aircraft and this will allow me another
option.

Peter
"Key"
2003-09-16 05:24:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew
Post by "Key"
"Matthew",
Glen is correct, its just not feasible.
Why would anyone even want to use plastic ?
Regular brass key blanks are fine for the procedure and
will
Post by Matthew
Post by "Key"
last much longer.
I'm not saying plastic is better or will last longer than
brass. What
Post by Matthew
I'm saying is there is a cheaper, easier, and more
reliable substitute
Post by Matthew
for the Clam Kit - a tool sold by many reputable locksmith
distributors. I'm also saying that plastic keys may be
used for
Post by Matthew
impressioning. It's simply a fact. I have several keys
that I have
Post by Matthew
made.
Why would anyone want to use plastic - who knows? Why do
people spend
Post by Matthew
money on electric lock picks? Because it's another tool
that may work
Post by Matthew
for them. Just because a technique or tool comes along
that you have
Post by Matthew
never heard of, does not make the technique false or the
tool faulty.

you can say what ya wish.
has nothing to do with not knowing of a new technique or a
new tool.
many of which are a waste of good $$$'s.
I still say,
"why would anyone even want to use plastic ?
I will still take my vice grips, pippin and a 25¢ key blank
and spend no more than 10 minutes of my time to impression a
dependable, longer lasting key.
its really hard to more cost efficient than that !
--
"Key"
Henry E Schaffer
2003-09-16 13:26:11 UTC
Permalink
... has nothing to do with not knowing of a new technique or a
new tool.
many of which are a waste of good $$$'s.
My experience is that when determining what new tool is a waste of
$$$'s, one must take into account when it will be needed. E.g., for me
the best VATS reader would be a waste of $$$'s even if it cost only $1.
That's because I do *no* auto work - and so that would be a wasted $1.
I still say,
"why would anyone even want to use plastic ?
I will still take my vice grips, pippin and a 25¢ key blank
What if one didn't have the blank for that lock?

In that case one couldn't either impression, or copy an existing key.
and spend no more than 10 minutes of my time to impression a
dependable, longer lasting key.
its really hard to more cost efficient than that !
But without the blank - you can't do that.

With plastic, one could impression and have a working key, of poorer
quality, but it could be used temporarily, and could be copied later.

Then, of course, it is easy to think of illegitimate uses for this
technology.
--
--henry schaffer
***@ncsu.edu
--Shiva--
2003-09-16 14:26:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henry E Schaffer
My experience is that when determining what new tool is a waste of
$$$'s, one must take into account when it will be needed. E.g., for me
the best VATS reader would be a waste of $$$'s even if it cost only $1.
That's because I do *no* auto work - and so that would be a wasted $1.
here I agree... I can buy 'tool' to do this faster/easier/more
efficient, will save me x amount of time per time needed, but, if
you only need that ability a few times a year, its a waste of
money.

regarding the vat reader, I do far more 6 cut vat, than 10 cut,
and my local GM dealer has in fact only needed 3-4 10 cut vat
blanks in the last several years.

there ARE situations that one must stop and think-OK, I buy
this, and can DO this,the tool will cost me say $2,000, but, how
many times have I turned DOWN a job due to lack of that tool?
That answer then makes the tool-useful, or not
--Shiva--
"Key"
2003-09-16 17:08:00 UTC
Permalink
--
"Key"

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Post by Henry E Schaffer
... has nothing to do with not knowing of a new
technique or a
Post by Henry E Schaffer
new tool.
many of which are a waste of good $$$'s.
My experience is that when determining what new tool is
a waste of
Post by Henry E Schaffer
$$$'s, one must take into account when it will be needed.
E.g., for me
Post by Henry E Schaffer
the best VATS reader would be a waste of $$$'s even if it
cost only $1.
Post by Henry E Schaffer
That's because I do *no* auto work - and so that would be
a wasted $1.
Post by Henry E Schaffer
I still say,
"why would anyone even want to use plastic ?
I will still take my vice grips, pippin and a 25¢ key
blank
Post by Henry E Schaffer
What if one didn't have the blank for that lock?
In that case one couldn't either impression, or copy an
existing key.

was commenting on cost efficiancy when someone was
impressioning.
Post by Henry E Schaffer
and spend no more than 10 minutes of my time to
impression a
Post by Henry E Schaffer
dependable, longer lasting key.
its really hard to more cost efficient than that !
But without the blank - you can't do that.
doesn't apply. refer to above.
Post by Henry E Schaffer
With plastic, one could impression and have a working
key, of poorer
Post by Henry E Schaffer
quality, but it could be used temporarily, and could be
copied later.

all I am saying is that it still wouldn't be cost efficiant
at the time.
Post by Henry E Schaffer
Then, of course, it is easy to think of illegitimate
uses for this
Post by Henry E Schaffer
technology.
--
--henry schaffer
agree..

g'day
---
Key
Matthew
2003-09-17 01:28:55 UTC
Permalink
Henry,

I agree with your comments, especially the last part about
illegitimate use. That's another reason locksmiths should be aware of
this technique, especially with the increasing interest in forensics,
which many locksmiths are pursuing.
Post by Henry E Schaffer
... has nothing to do with not knowing of a new technique or a
new tool.
many of which are a waste of good $$$'s.
My experience is that when determining what new tool is a waste of
$$$'s, one must take into account when it will be needed. E.g., for me
the best VATS reader would be a waste of $$$'s even if it cost only $1.
That's because I do *no* auto work - and so that would be a wasted $1.
I still say,
"why would anyone even want to use plastic ?
I will still take my vice grips, pippin and a 25¢ key blank
What if one didn't have the blank for that lock?
In that case one couldn't either impression, or copy an existing key.
and spend no more than 10 minutes of my time to impression a
dependable, longer lasting key.
its really hard to more cost efficient than that !
But without the blank - you can't do that.
With plastic, one could impression and have a working key, of poorer
quality, but it could be used temporarily, and could be copied later.
Then, of course, it is easy to think of illegitimate uses for this
technology.
Matthew
2003-09-16 17:02:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by "Key"
you can say what ya wish.
has nothing to do with not knowing of a new technique or a
new tool.
many of which are a waste of good $$$'s.
I still say,
"why would anyone even want to use plastic ?
I will still take my vice grips, pippin and a 25¢ key blank
and spend no more than 10 minutes of my time to impression a
dependable, longer lasting key.
its really hard to more cost efficient than that !
You are passing judgment on materials you have never purchased or used
and techniques you have never tested. I've impressioned many locks
using brass keys over the years and I've recently tested some plastic
materials and I've found them to be useful. If you wish to be closed
minded about the use of plastics, so be it.
"Key"
2003-09-16 17:17:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew
Post by "Key"
you can say what ya wish.
has nothing to do with not knowing of a new technique or
a
Post by Matthew
Post by "Key"
new tool.
many of which are a waste of good $$$'s.
I still say,
"why would anyone even want to use plastic ?
I will still take my vice grips, pippin and a 25¢ key
blank
Post by Matthew
Post by "Key"
and spend no more than 10 minutes of my time to
impression a
Post by Matthew
Post by "Key"
dependable, longer lasting key.
its really hard to more cost efficient than that !
You are passing judgment on materials you have never
purchased or used
Post by Matthew
and techniques you have never tested.
no I am not. I am saying that I can impression a key for 25¢
and 10 minutes of my time. thats cost efficient enough for
anyone.
Post by Matthew
I've impressioned many locks
using brass keys over the years and I've recently tested
some plastic
Post by Matthew
materials and I've found them to be useful.
then whats the bottom line cost ?
is it more cost efficiant than 25¢ and ten minutes of your
time ?
Post by Matthew
If you wish to be closed
minded about the use of plastics, so be it.
if you want to be close minded to what I am really saying ?
so be it.
--
"Key"
Glen Cooper
2003-09-17 00:38:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew
Post by "Key"
you can say what ya wish.
has nothing to do with not knowing of a new technique or a
new tool.
many of which are a waste of good $$$'s.
I still say,
"why would anyone even want to use plastic ?
I will still take my vice grips, pippin and a 25¢ key blank
and spend no more than 10 minutes of my time to impression a
dependable, longer lasting key.
its really hard to more cost efficient than that !
You are passing judgment on materials you have never purchased or used
and techniques you have never tested. I've impressioned many locks
using brass keys over the years and I've recently tested some plastic
materials and I've found them to be useful. If you wish to be closed
minded about the use of plastics, so be it.
I'd like to know what keyways you've impressioned using plastic blanks.
Simple wafer locks? SC1, 1145 house keys? H50/51 Ford pin tumbler keys?
I'm wondering how much turning force can be applied? My mind is always open
to new ways of doing things. I just dont see how it would work. Please
explain how and why it works better than softened brass.
Putyourspamhere
2003-09-25 16:44:07 UTC
Permalink
Subject: Re: Making Plastic Keys
Date: 9/15/2003 9:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time
-snip-
Why would anyone want to use plastic - who knows? Why do people spend
money on electric lock picks? Because it's another tool that may work
for them.
-snip-

If you're trying to promote the use of plastics that isn't a good comparison to
use. "Electric lock picks" are junk. They don't work as well as the plain old
manual snap guns.
Bob DeWeese, CML
2003-09-20 12:10:21 UTC
Permalink
To tell you the ruth, I can't figure out one *legitimate* reason to use a
clam kit in the first place. If you are _autorized_ to duplicate a key, I
can think of a lot of easier and cheaper ways to do it.

--
Bob DeWeese, CML
***@spaammbearlock.com (remove"no spaamm")
www.bearlock.com
www.edgemerebiblechurch.org

Bear Lock & Security Service, Inc - A full service locksmith company
specializing in professional, cost effective solutions to your
Commercial, Residential, Safe, and Automotive Security Problems.

<>< Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may
lift you up in due time. Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares
for you. 1 Peter 5:6-7
Post by Matthew
In case you don't like using the Clam Kit to duplicate keys, some
OOMOO 30 silicon rubber and Smooth-Cast 300 plastic resin will allow
you to make plastic keys. The only additional supplies you'll need is
some plastic cups, spoons, a toothpick and a key. Both products are
extremely easy to work with and are less expensive. Plus when you
make a silicon mold of a key you may cast as many plastic keys as you
want from the same mold without degradation or distortion. Using
silicon rubber and plastic resin allows a person to mold and cast any
high-security key, unlike the Clam Kit. The plastic keys are durable
and strong enough to move the tumblers and turn the plug. If you want
to make a set of plastic bump keys (i.e. hammerpicks, 999 keys,
knockers) or if you want to make some blank plastic keys for
impressioning, I recommend using a harder plastic resin, such as Task
10. Pin marks left on the plastic blank show up like a neon sign and
the plastic is easy to file and cut.
Joe Kesselman (yclept Keshlam)
2003-09-20 15:06:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob DeWeese, CML
To tell you the ruth, I can't figure out one *legitimate* reason to use a
clam kit in the first place.
One highly specialized use: If someone has an *extremely* obscure blank
that you don't recognize, but has only the one copy of the key and can't
be without it for more than a few minutes, this lets you make a
temporary/emergency duplicate for them or (perhaps more usefully) for
yourself to take back to the shop and research.

Yeah, a photocopy is usually sufficient. But having something you could
actually take a micrometer to, or hold in your hand to compare against
others, might not be a bad thing.

Cost effective... Maybe, if you can add an "obscurity surcharge" to the
service. Worth the investment in the tool? Very unlikely unless you're
specializing in dealing with these weird cases.

I find the comments about alternative materials more interesting from a
crafts point of view than a locksmithing point of view, but de gustibus.
--
Joe Kesselman, http://www.lovesong.com/people/keshlam/
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/\ Stamp out HTML mail! | "Put down the squeezebox & nobody gets hurt."
Putyourspamhere
2003-09-25 16:54:10 UTC
Permalink
Subject: Re: Making Plastic Keys
Date: 9/20/2003 11:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Post by Bob DeWeese, CML
To tell you the ruth, I can't figure out one *legitimate* reason to use a
clam kit in the first place.
One highly specialized use: If someone has an *extremely* obscure blank
that you don't recognize, but has only the one copy of the key and can't
be without it for more than a few minutes, this lets you make a
temporary/emergency duplicate for them or (perhaps more usefully) for
yourself to take back to the shop and research.
Yeah, a photocopy is usually sufficient. But having something you could
actually take a micrometer to, or hold in your hand to compare against
others, might not be a bad thing.
Cost effective... Maybe, if you can add an "obscurity surcharge" to the
service. Worth the investment in the tool? Very unlikely unless you're
specializing in dealing with these weird cases.
I would call it a research charge and base it upon the actual time spent
locating a suitable blank or the time spent making a suitable mold to cast a
permanent replacement. With a credit card and authorization to bill on file.
The temporary key molding and casting would be a separate charge.
Putyourspamhere
2003-09-25 16:49:42 UTC
Permalink
Subject: Re: Making Plastic Keys
Date: 9/20/2003 8:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time
To tell you the ruth, I can't figure out one *legitimate* reason to use a
clam kit in the first place. If you are _autorized_ to duplicate a key, I
can think of a lot of easier and cheaper ways to do it.
Most legit uses would be situations where you had no blank and none was readily
available. If you make a mold and then a temporary copy of the original key the
customer can retain their key while you attempt to locate a suitable blank.
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